Traveller-digest     Saturday, November 30 1996     Volume 1996 : Number 708



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #706
Insulting Alan...
Dragons in Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #707
Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)
Re: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?
Blair Reynolds
Oo-arr tractors
Lonnng campaign
Duke Norris
Dragons in Beyond
Gcomp
Floppy tanks
Santanocheev
K'kree
MegaTraveller Auction #5
Prisons+law and order
Re: Shipboard Computers
Sun Message
Re: Santanocheev
Re: [T96#702] Thanksgiving
Re: Ine Givar
Re: Prisons+law and order
Re: Floppy tanks
TO    Brian Mays
Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)
Re: Prisons+law and order
RE: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 1996 18:45:13 GMT
From: ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #706

Hey there,

gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
coming... back next tuesday. 

see ya...

alan j

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 15:47:15 -0100
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Insulting Alan...

Ross Coburn wrote:

>>Alan Pursell wrote:
[Alan's holiday greetings snipped]
>>I have seen this message at least 8 times now. Any particular reason,
>>other than gloating?
>
>Yes, the dumb SOB set his mailer to autoreply, so every time he gets a
>digest it sends this message.
>
>(BTW, I can call him a dumb SOB because he happens to be a friend of mine,
>and I'm terribly jealous of his current warmth.)

        So does this mean I can call him a chronically unpunctual
goatee-wearing cocktail-swilling lounge-listening running dog of the yellow
gutter press that looks somewhat like Hugh Grant's evil twin?  Kewl!

        BTW, all of the above are largely true ('cept for the chronically
unpunctual bit:  he has been more or less on time for the past few
games)...  and meant in the best of all possible ways  :-).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 10:40:12
From: rogersm@tau.uab.es (Roger Sen Montero)
Subject: Dragons in Traveller

In <199611290047.TAA02670@phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM>, on 11/28/96 
   at 07:47 PM, Carlos (Traveller-digest) said:

>        Anyway, hmmmmmm... at least for no high-G, dense atm. worlds, flying
>creatures based on the mythic idea of a dragon could have been geneered as
>scouts, but probably not created from scratch. Anyone knows of non-sentient,
>dragon-like creatures suitable for this purpose. Both The Beyond and Vland
>are very far away from the Solomani.


 IIRC, in the adventure included in the DGP gamaster screen there was some
kind of flying draconian creature.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
rogersm@tau.uab.es (Roger Sen Montero)
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 1996 19:45:15 GMT
From: ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #707

Hey there,

gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
coming... back next tuesday. 

see ya...

alan j

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 13:38:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)

At 11:06 AM 11/30/96 +0000, you wrote:
>sturm wrote:
>> The Vargr are a big question mark though, but I think through a
>> judiciious use of military force and diplomacy (making agreements with
>> particular Vargr groups) Norris could keep the Vargr feuding amongst
>> themselves and neutralize them.
>
>I was kinda hoping to see an Aslan (allied to Regency)Vargr war
>
Good Lord man!  They'd fight like Cats and Dogs!!!!

Sorry.

+----------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net  |
|     Professional Driver - Traveller Guru     |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/        |
|**********************************************|
| "Life's a journey, not a destination."       |
|                                   -Aerosmith |
+----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 13:47:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?

The time-table in the MT Referee's Companion (by Marc Miller) says:

Imperial Date  TL  Comments
- -2210          12  Terrans discover Jump 3

- -1776          10  Syleans maintain minimal interstellar trade

- -650           11  Sylean Federation Established  

- -150           12  Robot manufacturing reestablished

 300           13  Vargr Campaigns taking place (210-348)

So, Sylea has had TL 12 for a while, it makes sense that most of their
ships are TL 12.  As for everyone else... Well, the Solomani likely have
TL 12 civilizations still going strong in some areas.  It makes sense that
the K'Kree have at least TL 13, since they have a *very* conservative
civilization.  The Aslan are likely TL 10 or 11 max since they are so new
at all this, and I'm assuming the Vargr are probably in the TL 11-12 range
simply because I've always assumed that they got about as much of their
tech from borrowing as from independent invention. 

If I had to make a guess I'd make Zhdant TL 13 and the rest of the 
Consulate TL 11 or 12.  Remember, the Zhodani are also very stable, the
Consulate has not grown since -1000.  From the data we have I'd say that 
part of the reson the Zhodani advance technologically beyond this point 
is to be able to counter Imperial aggression.

The key to making all of this make sense is to simply assume that instead
of the Imperium being the technological leader during all eras, it was
simply the technological leader in its local area, until it got large
enough that it could handle smaller, slightly more advanced pocket
empires, and that is was at rough technological parity with most of the
other minor races when it finally contacted them.  

I'd rule that in the Core, Vland, Dagudashaag, Lishun, and Fornast sectors
there is no one else who has TL 12 or above.  Beyond this region I'd say
all bets are off.  Massila has the Geonee, who are likely TL 13, but they
seem rather non-expansionistic, so I would imagine they are not much of a
threat. 

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 13:52:43 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Blair Reynolds

Anyone know how I can contact the artist Blair Reynolds?  I want to use some
of his stuff for my webpage, and would like to get permission.

Thanks in advance.

+----------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net  |
|     Professional Driver - Traveller Guru     |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/        |
|**********************************************|
| "Life's a journey, not a destination."       |
|                                   -Aerosmith |
+----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:55:56 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Oo-arr tractors

>> Anyways, for artifical  gravity, imagine that we can only poke the sheet
"up", thus pushing  things away from our AG source. This could nullify gravity,
provide thrusters, repulsor beams, etc. You could repulse things in any
direction,  but, technically, you'd never have a "tractor beam", as it  would
imply pulling ie. curving the sheet "down".  <<

OK, this sounds believable. I like it. But where does it leave grav plates?

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Anybody want to buy a Starfighter ? Then buy an acre of
| | ground. And wait. (Robert Calvert)                           |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:56:05 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Lonnng campaign

>> Someday, I'm going to start a campaign in 1104 and take all the way through
the 5th Frontier War.  Set in my favorite subsector (Lunion), I'll play up  the
whole hightening of tensions, border incidents, and have the PC's Far  Trader a
little to close to the Sword Worlds border when the hostilities  start... <<

We did dat! Started in 1106 and we're now up to 1117. Good times...

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | A cardinal rule of politics: never get caught in bed with a
| | live man or a dead woman.                                    |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:55:58 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Duke Norris

>> I must say that I really disliked the whole Virus concept, I would have  much
rather seen the shattered Imperium united again (my personal  favorite would
have been Duke Norris...) <<

Ra RA! Yay, Norris for Emperor! Anyone who can carry off that mustache would
find interstellar government a snap. Anyone ever notice that Norris is actually
J. Jonah Jameson (small prize for those who spot that one!) ?

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Anybody want to buy a Starfighter ? Then buy an acre of
| | ground. And wait. (Robert Calvert)                           |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:55:53 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Dragons in Beyond

>> Carlos Alos-Ferrer

>> I did not know that. In fact, I would like to know the source and  some
details (Hugh...?). Btw, why "supposedly discredited Beyond"?. <<

The Beyond was a sector booklet published by Paranoia Press way, way back, which
has been dismissed from Canon but recividists like m'self still use. It was a
bare description of a roaring roistering frontier sector. It needed a lot of
fleshing out (anyone wanna see my I'Sred*Ni alien module draft?) but had real
character. They also did the Vanguard Reaches, for which all this also applies.

There is a web page run by one of the two bods who did this (Don Rapp I think);
I've lost the URL but if you search on Paranoia it should pop up. Max kudos,
he's still updating the sector!

If you can find a copy of Beyond good luck! Sword of the Knight or BITS might
have one.

As to detail on the system in question - nope, you'd have to write it up
yourself. Shock horror! We can't do that anymore! Knickers. That's half the fun.

Auld bastard signs off!

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | If you're going to do something wrong, at least enjoy it.
| [------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:56:03 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Gcomp

>> > So the acceleration vectors, normally cancelled by the I-Comp, are  > all
over the place. In the absence of comp, then, wherever you are,  > if you aren't
strapped in you're bulkhead stroganoff.

And here's the mistake. You have to *turn the ship* to change vectors.  Thrust
from the main drive will *always* be along the same axis. <<

Well, buddha me. You're absolutely right. Kind of you to let me down gentle.

>> All you have to do is get a hit that cuts the power *to* the plates.  The
power plant can still be working but if the wrong cable got cut,  you'll be
without whatever that cable was powering. <<

True - excepting multiple redundancies - I suppose. I'd still contend that if
you're taking that much internal damage, you're up the swannee anyway. :)

I'll bow out of this thread. I haven't the lock on physics for it. But I'll run
ship combat and design the way I do because the players like it and the ships
look better - especially on an A4 print <g>

<Joe re IG & Ken Whitman>

>> I hope this clears up any confusion about the subject. <<

Well, it sounds more positive than what I'd deduced myself. The only bit that
gives me the runs is the "pursuing other products" bit. That's where GDW went
wrong; instead of sticking to the stuff they had they tried to do too much at
once. I'd hate to see Traveller pushed aside again by Groo et al (deserving as
they may be) as it was by Dangerous Jerkeys and the Kiddie Cards. <Down! Heel!>

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Statistics are often used as a drunk uses a lamp-post; for
| | support rather than illumination.                            |
[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:55:55 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Floppy tanks

>> The tank basically looks like a blob or one of those sillicon breast implants
and just plops along... :)  Does anybody  in materials science know if this
would be possible?  I was thinking  of nanomanufactured layers of hull... <<

Probably possible, given high enough tech, but can you imagine any soldier worth
his salt using one? :)

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Faith will not die while seed catalogs are printed.
| [------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:56:01 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Santanocheev

>> Admiral Santanocheev.  I  have also seen his name plastered all over the
Traveller News Service,  including the fact that he was removed from command by
Norris, but I never  had a clue as to why!  And of course my players were all
over it, so had to  do some artful GM dodging.  It'd be nice to reveal this to
them.    Can I ask where this information can be found?  JTAS?  Challenge?
Anyone? Anyone?  Bueller?   <<

If you can find it, the superb CT supplement "The Spinward Marches Campaign"
which details the results of the Fifth Frontier War. And no, you can't buy mine!
:)

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Too much of a good thing is wonderful.
| [------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 16:56:07 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: K'kree

>> Sorry all you g'naak. Ktoongur!gnaarr is getting on in years, and forgot to
turn his damn MS RTF formatting off. <<

Well, there y'go. How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf? :)

>> Are chirpers edible?  Well... I suppose... but they are so scrawny you'd need
three or four of  them to make a decent sandwich... <<

Nah, you have awhole buncha them inna bag like potato chips, or onna stick like
sausage. And that's cuttin' me own froat.

[------------------------------oOo-----------------------------] | Hugh Foster
100326,446       | | Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more.
| [------------------------------oOo-----------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:58:59 GMT
From: sdollar@goodnet.com (Stuart L. Dollar)
Subject: MegaTraveller Auction #5

Hey gang!  I have the following Traveller/MegaTraveller books
available:

I have the following items available for auction.
(Condition:  5-Mint to 1-Poor)

GDW:
MegaTraveller:  Astrogators' Guide to the Diaspora Sector
Sector Map, UWP stats (MT & Hard Times Era) for Diaspora Sector
Condition: 3  (Wear on Spine) 
Minimum Bid: $3

MegaTraveller:  Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
Condition: 4  (Slight Wear on Spine)
Current high bids:
$13 hbill@primenet.com
$11 lynchblo@waikato.ac.nz

MegaTraveller: Referee's Companion
Condition: 3 (Slight Wear on Spine, Bend on Front Cover) 
Minimum Bid: $8

MegaTraveller: Rebellion Sourcebook
Condition: 4 (Slight Wear on Spine)
$12 hbill@primenet.com

DGP:
Travellers' Digest #19:
Contains 2 Adventures, UWP Stats, Library Data & Sector Maps for Deneb
& Riftspan Reaches Sectors
Condition: 4 (Some Wear on Cover)
$5 earthshaker@datatek.com
$4 truestar@pipeline.com

The following are the auction rules:

1) Open bids will be accepted until Midnight MST on Saturday December
7, 1996.  

2)  Two (2) highest bidders as of above deadline will be contacted
individually on Sunday December 8th, and asked to submit a final bid.
They will have until December 10, 1996 Midnight (Tuesday) to submit
this final bid.

3)  Bids will be accepted in minimum increments of $1.  Please note
minimum bids being taken for all items.  Bids of $XX more than highest
bidder will be accepted only during the open bidding period, and will
only be effective for the current day's bidding.

4) Auction updates will be posted daily.

5) All costs do not include freight.

6)  IMPORTANT:  Save bandwidth, please send all bids by e-mail to:
sdollar@goodnet.com.

Stu

Stuart L. Dollar                         sdollar@goodnet.com
Official USENet Spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ------------------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."  -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:01:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: mark james wilkin <aa4mwi@zen.sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Prisons+law and order

Seeing the film Midnight Express sent me think about prisons and how you 
could base adventures around them. I was just wondering if anyone has any 
idea on what a tech level 12 prison would be like. Midnight express and 
the Shawshank Redemption are good resources for prisons in the presnt day 
or TED's dungeons. But what kind of technology would you use to lock 
people up in the Imperium. I suppose trackers would be one step and the 
fun remote control bomb is always another. Would there be any chance of 
escape once you get past a certain levl of tech. Would you even imprison 
people when they could be doing work. You could set paramenters of people 
movements if you have a city/planetwide tracking network.
Getting out of something like this or a cortex bomb would take some 
doing. I mean finding a surgeon who also knows something about bomb 
disposal would be an arse.
Robot Guards would also be quite difficult to bribe but they wouldn't be 
able to act as intelligently as a human and so could be outsmarted.
And theres always the possiblity of outside help, prisons are designed to 
keep people in not out. Theres an adventure for you PC's hired to break 
someone out of prison, just happens the prison is on an asteroid far out 
in the system with more missles and scanners than you can shake a pointed 
stick at.
Anyone else have any ideas.
"You can't love here this is hell!"
				  The Books Of Magic
Mark Wilkin

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 14:08:06 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Shipboard Computers

BrianMays@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I can't seem to find any mention of installing a ship's computer in the T4
> rules.  There is a discussion of Computer ratings in the equipment chapter,
> and there is a list of "additional programs" in the QSDS, but I'm not sure
> what you'd run them on.  How much do the different ratings of computer cost?
>  How much do they weight? Etc.

Let me take a stab at this . . . 

Since Eris said awhile back that QSDS is based on FF&S' infamous Ship Design Sequence, 
I'm assuming that most of the subsystems are likewise based on FF&S. If I'm wrong, I 
invite the Holy Trav Answer Team to descend upon my head :)

As I understand it, the "controls" section of QSDS is actually "computers." Military 
"controls" represent fiber-optic computers. This makes sense, since hits from nukes and 
PAWs do additional comp damage to non-fib ships. I took a look at FF&S, and the numbers 
look that way. BTW, these look like triply-redundant machines, too.

This seems to be the case because in the Hull step of QSDS, it says that standard hull 
costs include "controls." I assume this means the "controls" listed under electronics in 
FF&S, which makes some sort of twisted sense.

As for comp ratings: Max comp ratings are based on tech level -- the max comp possible 
at any given TL is (Current TL - 7), leaving a max of 5 at the putative M0 tech level of 
12. For campaign reasons, Imperial Intelligence has a level one higher, 
probably reflecting massively-parallel and/or crude Tech 13 comps. I'd assume that 
shipboard comps are rated at 2 or 3 to 4, with almost all ships at the former and a few 
"very specialized" ships at the latter. In other words, a perscomm won't be able to plot 
a jump, the the popular Sylean vidshow "MacGyver" not withstanding <evil grin>. Heck, 
MacGyver can reprogram the global comm net with a broken videogame and a roll of duct 
tape . . . :) 

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: 01 Dec 1996 00:09:49 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Sun Message

I suspect the owner of this account has set an auto-reply mailbot working, so
that people don't this he is ignoring their messages.  Thus, every time he
gets a digest, we get this message.  Thank God he subscribed to the digest
option!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:46:34 -0500
From: BrianMays@aol.com
Subject: Re: Santanocheev

In a message dated 96-11-30 17:04:01 EST, you write:

<< If you can find it, the superb CT supplement "The Spinward Marches
Campaign"
 which details the results of the Fifth Frontier War. And no, you can't buy
mine! >>

[Feeling Very Slooow] Um, I have that supplement.  Just didn't read all of
it.  OK, most of it.  ; )Thanks for the heads up!

While we're talking CT campaigns, has anyone else ever run a campaign from
the Glisten Subsector?  I'm having a blast with a TL15 civilization of
billions of people in an asteroid belt!

Brian ("oh, look honey, that'd be a PERFECT house-asteroid!") Mays

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 19:27:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T96#702] Thanksgiving

Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au hath scriven...

T::>     What the hell is a thanksgiving? Is it some kind of post-Election
 ::>     ritual?

 Yes - it's where the United States electorate gives thanks that
 yet another annoying campaign season of lies, damned lies,
 statistics, sleaziness, mudslinging, distortion, and all of
 those other distasteful behaviors normally associated with the
 subhuman species /pseudohomo protosapiens politickensis/ has
 ended.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  !edis gnorw eht morf siht ta gnikool era uoY

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:04:08 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ine Givar

In a message dated 96-11-30 03:20:27 EST, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Ine Givar -- not even a 
>  library data entry.  I'm not even sure how the name is intended to be 
> pronounced.  Is 
>  the "e" silent or voiced?  Is the "g" hard or soft?
>  Ein Ghivar?  Inay Zhivar?  you pick

I've always pronounced it Ein Ghivhahr.  It sounds suitably terrorist to me
that way.  


Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:04:11 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Prisons+law and order

In a message dated 96-11-30 17:05:50 EST, Mark Wilkin writes:

> I was just wondering if anyone has any 
>  idea on what a tech level 12 prison would be like

See if you can find the CT adventure "Prison Planet."  Not one of my all time
faves, but a pretty good play (and read) nonetheless.  


Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:04:17 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Floppy tanks

In a message dated 96-11-30 17:04:47 EST, Hugh Foster wrote:

> >> The tank basically looks like a blob or one of those sillicon breast 
> implants
>  and just plops along... :)  Does anybody  in materials science know if
this
>  would be possible?  I was thinking  of nanomanufactured layers of hull...
<<
>  
>  Probably possible, given high enough tech, but can you imagine any soldier

> worth
>  his salt using one? :)


Didja ever see "Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex..." by Woody Allen?
 :)


Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 96 22:28:53 EST
From: Jeff & Michelle Norton <103010.212@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TO    Brian Mays

	I got a great download from David Watson a while back on the IG. It is a
great help in the book i'm trying to write (when work and life allows...)
	It was a good bit of data and I still have the hard copy I printed; I got
stupid and deleted the file. Sorry, I work for the goverment. We do stupid
things like that... from time to time.
	I do not have his address at this time. I did thank him, but would like
another copy saved to disk for safe keeping. I probally will transpose it there
from mine when I get the chance.
	As soon as I get the address (soon as I find the doc), I'll pass it on to
you.

	Jeff Norton

	Life is a minefield...
	

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:48:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)

In mail you write:

>>I was kinda hoping to see an Aslan (allied to Regency)Vargr war
>>
> Good Lord man!  They'd fight like Cats and Dogs!!!!
>
> Sorry.

No, you aren't!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 18:21:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Prisons+law and order

<re: hi-tech or future prisons>

Well, one idea that's quite workable is the one James White used in
"Escape Orbit". One side in a war handles the POW problem by picking an
undeveloped but habitable planet and dumping the POWs there. There are
some survielance satellites, but the main thing keeping people there is
the fact that get dumped with just the clothes on their backs.

There are several ways of getting prisoners landed in such a situation.
In decreasing degree of security:

1. dump them from low orbit in a "personal escape system"
2. dump them by parachute from medium altitude
3. Lower them from a hovering ship
4. land a heavily armed shuttle and kick them out the door.

If the surveilance satellites detect something suspicious (large
concentration of metal, etc) they "drop a rock" on it. 

Prospects of escaping are slim without outside help. And the outside
help had better be able to take out the satellite network!

Another method would be to infect prisoners with something like Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome. Not terribly infectious, but it'll render you
incapable of escaping, or even giving much trouble. At release, you
cure them.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:42:48 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?

>So, Sylea has had TL 12 for a while, it makes sense that most of their
>ships are TL 12.  As for everyone else... Well, the Solomani likely have
>TL 12 civilizations still going strong in some areas.  It makes sense that
>the K'Kree have at least TL 13, since they have a *very* conservative
>civilization.  The Aslan are likely TL 10 or 11 max since they are so new
>at all this, and I'm assuming the Vargr are probably in the TL 11-12 range
>simply because I've always assumed that they got about as much of their
>tech from borrowing as from independent invention.
>
>If I had to make a guess I'd make Zhdant TL 13 and the rest of the
>Consulate TL 11 or 12.  Remember, the Zhodani are also very stable, the
>Consulate has not grown since -1000.  From the data we have I'd say that
>part of the reson the Zhodani advance technologically beyond this point
>is to be able to counter Imperial aggression.
>
>The key to making all of this make sense is to simply assume that instead
>of the Imperium being the technological leader during all eras, it was
>simply the technological leader in its local area, until it got large
>enough that it could handle smaller, slightly more advanced pocket
>empires, and that is was at rough technological parity with most of the
>other minor races when it finally contacted them.

Well, this is a pretty good analysis of the situation. I think your 
assumption about the lack of Imperial technical supremacy in 0 is right on. 
Although I don't know about any Solomani cultures at 12 - they are in the 
same boat as the rest of the former Imperium, so why should they have any 
higher a Tech level?

I have to ask why it makes sense that the K'kree are TL 13 because they are 
very conservative? What difference does that make?

You also didn't mention the Hivers. I think we would have to put them at 13 
- - the same as the K'kree

Oh, a fun K'kree tidbit. In a previous CT campaign I had decided that the 
K'kree actually had completely discovered all of the technology necessary 
for TL-16, but they wanted to wait another hundred years or so before 
implementing any of it, just to make sure it was safe.

K.C. Komosky
kc@mb.sympatico.ca

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(C0$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <`
M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$
MD 8`% $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````0P``````
M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````'1R879E;&QE<D!-4$=.+D-/30!33510
M`'1R879E;&QE<D!-4$=.+D-/30``'@`", $````%````4TU44 `````>``,P
M`0```!,```!T<F%V96QL97) 35!'3BY#3TT```,`%0P!`````P#^#P8````>
M``$P`0```!4````G=')A=F5L;&5R0$U01TXN0T]-)P`````"`0LP`0```!@`
M``!33510.E12059%3$Q%4D!-4$=.+D-/30`#```Y``````L`0#H!`````@'V
M#P$````$`````````DTN`02 `0`I````4D4Z($AO=R!L;VYG(&AA<R!T:&4@
M26UP97)I=6T@:&%D(%1,(#$R/P#C# $%@ ,`#@```,P'"P`>`!8`*@`P``8`
M<@$!(( #``X```#,!PL`'@`6`"0`"P`&`$<!`0F `0`A````,T)%0C<Y-$0S
M1D1&0D(Q,4$R.4)%,C8Y-4,U0S$P048`>0<!`Y &`% (```4````"P`C````
M```#`"8```````L`*0```````P`N```````#`#8``````$ `.0"@5R,:0M^[
M`1X`< `!````*0```%)%.B!(;W<@;&]N9R!H87,@=&AE($EM<&5R:75M(&AA
M9"!43" Q,C\``````@%Q``$````6`````;O?0AH8BR0:XDLR$="3UP``````
M````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!,```!K8T!M8BYS>6UP
M871I8V\N8V$```,`!A G-;3#`P`'$*T&```>``@0`0```&4```!33RQ364Q%
M04A!4TA!1%1,,3)&3U)!5TA)3$4L251-04M%4U-%3E-%5$A!5$U/4U1/1E1(
M14E24TA)4%-!4D543#$R05-&3U)%5D5264].145,4T5714Q,+%1(15-/3$]-
M04Y)``````(!"1 !````M 8``+ &```3#@``3%I&=499SQ'_``H!#P(5`J0#
MY 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@*P'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@R(S#WIH96P#($1L
MZF<"@S03#7T*@ C/"=GB.Q>?,C4U`H *@0VQP0M@;F<Q,#,4( L#\&QI,S8-
M\ M5%<(,`?IP`V!T!9 %0 J'"V02\F4,`6,`0" ^&[\<Q%.$;RP2,6QE82 1
MP ,$(!' 9"!43" Q3Q(@`A %P"# =V@#$&7M(&!I!4 `P&L'D1'P`("892!T
M$< BH6]S!4#$;V8C<65I<ATO'C_U'"YS(C!P!" *P"-@(6.<+B 3< 0@(<)E
M=@207GD"("-@%0`1\"XJ("!^5Q4!(& D42 Q%S #@6GF(!M@(N!L>2#1*6 D
MKT<EOQPN(61C:78#$&EZ>B.@:0(@(P$P0!419_IO"X!G,)$#8#$Q"X C$%\#
M<"-@*"$@\"BQ22*O=(\L3RU?'"XJPDLG2PG1OROS(? %0""A(_$A8C,@8&D`
MD&YC(V)E*^0A\2K=*6(J+[ P8020=C Q+"_O-/\V#R^[*+%4*M$HX!J!MR@3
M*Y4A8C D$ 7 ,3SP70# >#D:*"(R`" IL'?_.W\\CQPN(Z$'0 ,@(X $`,<@
M8 !P(4!))VTA\ 00['5M,2(JPE8*P G *!-]'*%B`: KT3'1*L(A8C'Z+2&1
M<AJ1.V]$+T4_`)"6;0M0*^!B!9!A=2-1PT=0-_)L=V%Y* %'HK\)@"-T.8,Q
M`$8A!N!U1B'Y!"!M=1&P)!]+;TQ_-J?_!9!1T -23F %L -@`_ Q,>\@\57C
M"X -L' )\ VP`C#_,<$I8 (P/R-2?U./'"]8WZM9[UK]25(`22$3=$+0^R+"
M(?%G"E $$4=0(4!?P_A::&0`<#B51P,JPA>@OR/W6]]<[UW_"% `@'4+8,];
MD$GT02,HHE)E!X &T/\$D"JD82 $<"M2*"('0$+!_REB,)%)02)A4B%C/V1/
M95_[9F<@XFY0X0G 5G QX3DS[4I0,&_@*+%&5?(JPF% [P&0(A WM6"2<T]P
M(W1JSW]KWUKN"K%BIV)Q`B!H;&2?.Q Y0U6A;L 7,&=I3I#_%1!.4BF14!($
M`$CP,1%R7_]S;W1_(H $(%^13G!1`2"@^U^"!:!U`C $D#+ 3B &<?L'0"'P
M9PG!!! _(GH?>R__6N^ 'X$O+GXJT2+@<@%?H_]6DQ414?-Y@5_#(R1]-$X%
MWT^T(W0+@"/P(+!D@R^$/_^"+F+%?L1'P$YA1^9W^SA"_P2!<, (<8<U!) @
M\")S3V#^<XK?B^]-#TX4CU^09C'1_R*0!" 7,) R,E(@8'YA`Q'_(I%0T@M@
M2(!JOY-?E&\)\+T(8&=1T(H4/G$(8&PA0/<1P$<@?>%S`, 5$&@R/]#Z:9T@
M="O1!&!I0G>$(4!]>;!C(N S_YK/F]]GX'#_4E 'D$;TBA0$()(A.!(#8/^=
M$Y8["K$BD"O@`_ C@"/*_Z$/HA^,_U(A!<!'T06Q2I#_.5"E413PEX(AL N 
M>*,ZL?\!D(+P4 -GX"BQ"H4*CZE<_RIF>8%Y@2# @J 2`*=A,0!_!'!'`0= 
M3X!Y@6+%`)!TCG4_!5\P1K%N:R ID/\(<$>$!3 P45$%*L(+8*# _U'B?L=W
M\Y C1["R00#!27,_01!Y@040GV%1X#]!06Q7(X"=`U\P9 (@)P5 :[=NP ?@
M415N*^ K!V-FD.^T(&)Q.!(AD2U"*$F5<>#_,B$&X$9"?4%B32'!!X!^IO]'
MP#D!0M B(&GQNG&>`3F)W[P1(C"=('Z1(,!45:(@H/DI8&P_KNQ?,C?Q7Y$@
M\-^U$,'R(I]05#=1:S>2*";?8=!.=D(W:<,ZNC\J4".2^F0&D&8$D GP.5&Z
M\ >1=R.$(M'$O5D(8&EDR^!D[[L2!X!84RJS2#M!$>"TF.UQ(7>=Y<7D<+9D
M1W&]<?]AT+W#OM2_A<A$KN\;/JF)?$]H1O$AL'Y@R#8P0&3^8L; M)% `;(R
M+^ (8 0@_$-4+["^\*^ GU #H%\T_P6!SP!0"<@W@O"T,'BR(2*_!:!.(1(`
M*\++X 3P;REA_U !AV=WV2O@*;"LD7'@:>'7(<(A8$I0-B!@8K9DIW&_85%0
M`L'1"W"[XJNT:'Y@^F3>8GD@L!'@02)"P4YP_R'!B+'=8L]C5J*\$5'QQL#]
M(&!J3K W`5^E1["^0I(#CW'1S!!_]J]52RY#*+ F2P-P(^!K>:]5:V/R0 ;0
M+G,&P*^ ,$ %H+XN3I"HGX)?"L$6P0#N( ,`$! !`````P`1$ ````! ``<P
MP"UF+4'?NP% ``@PP"UF+4'?NP$>`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]
%-P``0.7?
`
end

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #708
**********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".
